Decoding the SALESmanago Growth Framework: A Conversation with Michael McNeal

With over 25 years of experience leading teams at global giants like Microsoft, Toyota, and Expedia, and ecommerce experience with brands including Ping Golf, Diane von Furstenberg, and NASCAR, Michael has a unique perspective on what it takes to build a sustainable growth strategy. In this interview, he breaks down the core principles of the framework, explains how businesses can identify their current stage of maturity, and provides actionable advice for levelling up. 

Let's dive in.

The interview with Michael McNeal

Kamil Mizera: Hi Michael, thanks for joining me. With your extensive background at places like Microsoft and Toyota as well in ecommerce, you've seen the tech landscape evolve dramatically. What was the big market shift you saw that made you realise a tool like the Growth Framework was necessary for ecommerce businesses today?

Michael McNeal: The main thing that highlighted the need for a growth framework was the absence of a clear path forward for marketers. As a marketer, you might have a lot of different data points or various initiatives going on, but you often don't know what you should do next to add real value. It becomes a process of trial and error—maybe we can use this data a bit better, or maybe this new tool can do a lot, but we don't exactly know how to get the most out of it.

It was about replacing that uncertainty with a clear roadmap, where you know the next action you take will be of value and the best use of your time. It’s less of an experiment and more of knowing you're on the right path. 

The other factor is the sheer volume of data we now have access to. Even in the early days of simple web analytics, the question was always, "How can we best use this to make better marketing decisions?" Now, when you can tie that to, for example, email analytics, you suddenly have something much more powerful. You can see not just that a customer opened an email, but what they did once they got to your site. You start to understand product interest and customer behaviour on a much deeper level.

So, it really came down to two things: the lack of a defined path to growth, and the challenge of turning this abundance of data into actionable insights.

>> Read Michael's article about personalisation penalty

Kamil Mizera: In your view, what's the biggest risk for a business that tries to scale its marketing without a structured framework in place?

Michael McNeal: It sounds simple, but the biggest risk is spending money and not getting a return on it, right? You risk going down the wrong path and making an investment that doesn't yield the results you expect. The question is always, "Where do you best spend that next euro, pound, or dollar relative to where your business is right now?" Is it in more technology, training your team, better analytics, or something else entirely?

A framework helps you align that investment with your company's strategic goals. Are you looking to get more revenue from your existing customer base, or are you trying to expand into new markets? We've seen companies launch a whole new product line—say, a pet food company that only sold cat food now starts selling dog food. How do you go to market with that new line and ensure a return? A framework provides a planned, proven way to invest that next euro, pound, or dollar to be successful.

Kamil Mizera: So, in simple terms, what is the SALESmanago Growth Framework? What fundamental business question does it answer?

Michael McNeal: The two primary things it does are, first, it helps you assess where you are in your ecommerce growth journey. Second, it answers the question, "What does my path forward look like?" And that path isn't always about making a huge leap from one phase to the next. Often, the biggest gains come from optimising what you're already doing within your current phase.

For example, if you're in Phase 2 (Scaling Store) of the framework and only using email, you can use that same data to start using SMS. That simple step opens up a whole new set of high-value use cases. So, one use of the framework is to guide an assessment of where you are at organisationally , and we are, of course, here to partner with our clients to do deeper assessments. But the other part is defining that path forward, which is different for every company. You might be gathering a lot of data but struggling to act on it. We can help you understand the best way to start activating that data. Or perhaps your ecommerce site is only in one language, but you operate in a country with multiple languages. What does localisation look like, both on your site and in your marketing? The framework gives you that path forward in a very planned and choreographed way. It's like a dance—if you know all the steps, everything goes a lot smoother.

Kamil Mizera: The framework maps out four key phases: Emerging Shop, Scaling Store, Major Market, and eCommerce Innovator. Could you walk us through the core differences between a 'Scaling Store' and a 'Major Market' player? What's the critical leap a business has to make to cross that divide?

Michael McNeal: When talking about moving up a phase, I think the first thing is that the business has to be ready to make that jump. The move from a Scaling Store to a Major Market player often involves a few key expansions. The most common one is channel expansion. This means adding another channel in addition to your website and email. It could be SMS, mobile push, or web push. The right channel depends on the business, but it's about creating another touchpoint for your customers. That could be for marketing, or it could be for transactional messages, like using SMS to let a customer know their order has been shipped.

Another critical leap is going deeper into personalisation. An Emerging Shop might just be using a first name in an email. A Scaling Store starts to use purchase history to make basic recommendations. But a Major Market player begins to use more advanced data. They can make product recommendations based on what you've browsed in real-time on the website. To do that, you need to have more data and the ability to act on it. This is the other key difference: Major Market players are starting to bring data together from multiple sources—website behaviour, email engagement, and others—and make it actionable for more sophisticated personalisation and segmentation.

Kamil Mizera: The Growth Framework has four key areas: Storefront, Channels, Personalisation, and Data. Why were these four chosen as the pillars of the framework?

Michael McNeal: These are the four primary areas that we find resonate most with ecommerce companies. We do have a more detailed version of the framework that expands into ten different areas, breaking these down further into things like data sources, segmentation, and analytics, or looking at productivity and efficiency through automation and AI.

But the four we show here are universally recognised by everyone in ecommerce. You always have a storefront, you use channels to communicate, you need to think about personalisation, and you have contacts and customer data. These are the common themes that mature as a business increases its capabilities. We've seen this proven time and time again with our customers. When a business is successful in optimising these four areas, that's what leads to sustainable growth.

Kamil Mizera: The 'Personalisation' track seems to be the heart of the framework's maturity model. Why is it so difficult for businesses to move from 'Basic' to 'Advanced & Dynamic' personalisation? What's the main hurdle they need to overcome?

Michael McNeal: The biggest key to personalisation is data. The first hurdle is having the data and being able to analyse it to understand how it can be used. For example, you can track that a customer looked at three different colours of a winter jacket, and then you can track that they put one in their cart. The next question is, how do you use that data to get them to convert? Or, if they do purchase the jacket, how can you sell them something complementary, like ski pants or a hat?

So, the first critical item is having the data and understanding it. The second is having the ability to act on it. Can you get your product feed into an email or a recommendation frame on your website in real time? Can you tie that data to your ecommerce system to send them a coupon because you know they looked at a specific item? It's about putting multiple pieces together to personalise an offer or a communication. And it can be non-transactional, too. If you know a customer is interested in winter sports and you know their location, your newsletter could include content about local ski conditions. That builds a relationship. So, the first part is making the data actionable, and the second is having the content and the channels to deliver on that personalisation.

Kamil Mizera: AI is everywhere now. It is also mentioned in the later stages of the framework. How does Artificial Intelligence act as an accelerator for a business trying to move from a Major Market player to an Innovator? What new capabilities does it unlock?

Michael McNeal: In these higher phases, it’s about utilising AI to take the data you already have and make real-time decisions on it. It can look across all of your customer data and build an AI-driven segment of people that aligns with a particular business goal. For example, if you want to sell down last year's ski jackets, the AI can build a segment of customers who have looked at jackets but haven't purchased one recently and are also very value-conscious based on their purchase history.

Then, it can also personalise the content for that segment, whether it's an offer or non-transactional content. And it can do all of this in a "hands-off" way for the marketer. You can have the AI optimise the construction and execution of these journeys, which means you can get more relevant and focused campaigns out and get your learnings faster. It also allows you to do segmentation at a much more granular, micro-level than you could previously, without a lot of deep analytics work, which in some companies relies on the work of a separate team. It all becomes an automated and optimised seamless process.

Kamil Mizera: In your opinion, is it possible for a business to reach the 'Innovator' stage without an AI-powered platform?

Michael McNeal: If you had asked me a year ago, I would have said possibly yes. If you ask me now, I would say no. And it's important to keep in mind that what is in the Innovator phase today will be the standard for Major Market companies in six to twelve months. These capabilities are constantly flowing into the lower phases.

A lot of this AI will start to be built directly into the tools, happening in the background to assist marketers in being more efficient and effective. But AI will continue to be what defines an eCommerce Innovator. At the same time, you're going to see the expectation for AI capabilities move down into the earlier phases as well. Even a Scaling Store will expect AI to help with proofing an email or providing copy recommendations. AI is just going to become part of the table stakes for doing marketing.

Kamil Mizera: Let's say I'm a CEO of a 'Scaling Store.' I can see I'm at Phase 2. What's the first, most practical step I should take after identifying my position in the framework?

Michael McNeal: I think the first step is to ask if you are firmly in Phase 2 across all the components. Are you fully utilising everything you can in your current phase, or can you continue to optimise where you are? Are you making the most of all your data? Are you using multiple channels effectively?

Before moving to the next stage, you also have to consider your business goals. A Major Market company might have multiple stores or operate in multiple geographies. You may not be ready for that, but there are other things in that phase you could focus on, like adding another channel or using dynamic content. It depends on what you're ready for and what's going to yield the most impact. There is also an investment to consider. Do you want to make an investment to move to the next phase, or is there still an opportunity to further optimise the phase you're in with little or no investment? That's something we help a number of our customers with—understanding what's best for them.

Kamil Mizera: So, just to follow up on that, let's say a company is fully optimised in most areas of Stage 2, but they are more advanced in personalisation and could potentially reach Stage 3 in that one area. Would you advise them to optimise everything in Stage 2 first, or to start investing in that more advanced personalisation?

Michael McNeal: It's really a company-by-company decision. If you want to take that next step in personalisation, it's perfectly acceptable to do so, as long as you understand the impact and have everything else aligned. If you're going to do more advanced personalisation, you need to be able to leverage it across your existing channels, and you need the analytics and content to support it.

Part of what the framework helps with is understanding those relationships. If you want to do more advanced personalisation, that will have an impact on your segmentation and data, as you'll likely be communicating with smaller, more niche segments. It will also require more complex automations. As long as you understand what it would take to make that move, having that be your first step into the next phase is a perfectly acceptable strategy. Not every company will look the same as it moves from Phase 2 to Phase 3.

Kamil Mizera: Could you share an anonymised story of a client who used this framework to have a real 'aha!' moment?

Michael McNeal: One of the best examples was a client who didn't know they were basically following the phases in the growth framework, even though they were. When they saw the framework and were able to position themselves on it, it became immediately clear to them what their next step should be, which for them was going multi-channel.

It was a dual 'aha!' moment. First, they were able to look at the framework and get a clear sense of where they were. Second, they were able to say, "Here's a logical next step to optimise our growth." They had already self-validated the framework in their own minds because they had naturally progressed through Phase 1 and part of Phase 2. The framework gave them the clarity and confidence to know what to do next.

Kamil Mizera: Finally, how does the SALESmanago platform itself help a business not just identify their stage, but actively move to the next one?

Michael McNeal: We've built the platform to be very flexible and modular to support our customers' growth. If a customer wants to grow into SMS, it's very easy to enable that within our channels module. If they want to go deeper into personalisation, there are a number of ways to do that, whether it's through email, our website experience module, or our recommendations engine.

The platform is built around the approach that we know every customer is a little bit different. We give them the flexibility to select the right capabilities to move forward in a way that aligns with the growth framework. We're not bundling capabilities for a Phase 4 innovator with an offering for a Phase 2 company. We meet our customers where they are in their growth journey. You're able to get a tailored fit, almost like getting a new suit tailored to what you need. We want to make it easy to use, very flexible, and ensure that you're not paying for anything you don't need.

Kamil Mizera: Is there one final piece of advice you'd give to an ecommerce leader who feels their growth has slowed down and isn't sure what to do next?

Michael McNeal: I would say spend some time to objectively step back and assess where you are. Use the growth framework to understand your current capabilities, and then align that with your business goals. The customer experiences that will help your business grow could be in channels, in personalisation, or a number of different areas.

We have a number of customers who are growing but don't know why, or, to your point, are not growing as fast as they'd like. The framework can help them understand why and what the next steps are. And as I mentioned, that next step may not even be a large investment to move to the next phase, but simply doing a lot of the things you're doing now, but better. If you can do things more efficiently, your marketing teams can get more done. If you can do them more effectively, you're going to get better results for the effort you're putting in. It's about having the awareness to say, "Okay, let's get better at this," and the growth framework shows you what "better" looks like.

Kamil Mizera: Thank you so much for your time and expertise today, Michael.

Michael McNeal: Thank you.

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